Extremely dissatisfied

[bobllama]

:mad: :mad:

I was looking forward to using Viatalk, but I have to say I am extremely annoyed and will probably cancel and get a refund.

I signed up, got a temp number, and was told I could/should port my number over.

I thought why not?

Sign the form, wait the three weeks, get an email telling me the porting process is complete. everything worked out great.

For two days.

Friday at noon, suddenly everything goes dead: land line, DSL and subsequently VoIP.

Call up ATT frantically, "Yeah, you sent in a disconnect request. You'v been disconnected from our service."

See, it turns out IF YOU PORT YOUR DSL NUMBER, YOU LOSE YOUR PHONE NUMBER, YOUR LAND LINE AND YOUR DSL.

You'd think maybe they would give you a heads up not to port your number over if you only have only one phone line.

So I call up the techs and find out this could have very easily been avoided if I had notified ATT I wanted a "dry loop" of the line (ATT maintains the line for DSL but not for phone). You'd think ViaTalk would mention that at some point or better yet do it themselves.

But no.

I had to find this out on a friday afternoon and spend the weekend with no phone line in the house(good thing I don't get cell reception here!), and no DSL till wednesday. Good thing I telecommute!

VIATALK FAILED TO INFORM ME OF A CRUCIAL PITFALL TO THE PORTING PROCESS. I NOW HAVE TO SHELL OUT $50 TO REACTIVATE THE PHONE AND DSL, NOT TO MENTION LOSING MY PHONE NUMBER (WHO NEEDS ACCURATE BUSINESS CARDS?)

I've got two voice mails to the VP of customer relations and no response yet. Let's see how long it takes them to react, or if they even will.

[KLH]

So by porting your number, you do NOT want ATT in your case to discount your line? You would rather they continually bill you for a line that doesn't exists?
Do you know what porting a phone number means?

DSL is a feature that can be added on to phone lines, like caller ID, and call waiting, etc. So by canceling your phone number (or porting it) it will discount your DSL also, since it is a feature to your number. You wouldn't want to pay for caller ID for a phone line that doesn't exists right?

The people you should really be mad at I guess is ATT for not automatically switching you to a dry loop. But then again, by porting, you disconnected your home phone service which included DSL. So in the end it is all your fault.

Now I would say that maybe you are right that maybe ViaTalk should post something somewhere about not porting phone numbers with DSL on the account, because most likely your DSL will get disconnected also unless you made prior arrangements with the phone company.

[bobllama]

Of course it's my fault in that I initiated the porting process. But I did so without proper information.

I don't work for a telecom company, or in the telecom industry. I'm only marginally informed about this stuff. I'm your average consumer. How am I supposed to know what the ramifications of porting my number are aside from what meager info I get from the FAQ and the actual porting auth form?

I'm told I can have my old number be used for the ViaTalk, why wouldn't I want that? They make it awful easy to port, why wouldn't they provide essential information? What does it benefit Viatalk to have customers in my situation? I've noticed several other people on the forums here to whom it has happened, so I'm clearly not alone.

As far as "discounting" my line and my DSL, I'm not sure I follow your logic. I never expected to disconnect my ATT line. I'm aware that a land line is necessary to have DSL, which in turn in necessary to use ViaTalk. And yes, I was expecting to pay ATT "for a line no longer in use", because I knew they had to maintain it for the DSL.

I assumed, foolishly, I guess, that a company that would disconnect my line would take the necessary steps to make sure it didn't disconnect my service altogether.

What really irks me about all this is how easily it could have been avoided. A simple one-line sentence on the porting form could have saved me time, money and aggravation.

Instead I find myself scrambling to get to an internet cafe in order to work, I find myself having to walk down the street in order to make or receive a phone call. This service was supposed to save me time and money. It has cost me both.

[KLH]

In the LOA that you filled out it did state:

4) Do NOT call your existing carrier to cancel service or you will not be able to keep your telephone number. A disconnect notice will be sent to your previous provider on completion of this process.

Meaning that your old service would be disconnected.

I do agree with you that in ViaTalks FAQ and/or LOA there needs to be information about DSL customers needing to purchase a dry loop before submitting the LOA.

[bobllama]

And I assumed they would notify AT&T to set up a dry loop (didn't know it was called that until this happened).

[chitwood]

WOW. I'm glad I read this. I guess I'm just foolish to think that broadband internet is a separate thing from other services such as phone or cable TV.

I have my broadband through a cable modem. If I called up my cable company and canceled my TV service, I would have no reason to think the internet connection would be terminated also. So it seems logical to me that if I terminated phone service through the same provider as my DSL, I would lose just the phone, not the DSL.

I don't see why the consumer would expect two different services to be linked even if they are provided by the same company? There are many many examples of companies that provide more than one service and the two are not linked.

I certainly blame ATT for not contacting the customer about the consequences of porting their number or at least inquiring about the desire to continue DSL service. I also blame VT for not giving a warning about phone service possibly being tied to DSL service. But I don't think we can put any blame on bobllama, why should he have expected this?

[sbradshaw]

And I assumed they would notify AT&T to set up a dry loop (didn't know it was called that until this happened).

Why would you expect VT to notify AT&T to change your DSL service for you to a dry loop? VT is in the business of selling VOIP service, which includes a request for number porting if so directed by the customer. The end-user is responsible to make the decision as to whether it is o.k. to port the number or not.

When I ported my number over from Verizon, I called them to make sure that there were no restrictions on my line that would prevent me from porting. In your case, it would have been good to call AT&T prior.

Perhaps VT can alter there LOA to include a warning about porting the number if you have DSL (to call your current provider before authorizing the number port). I think that would be the most they could/should do.

[gsquare]

Me thinks that it would be a heart ache saving effort if business was a little more open in advising prospective customers of certain pitfalls. There are several in the Voip business. Porting is not a certanty in many cases. DSL and its normally attendant dial tone service is another. Most telephone customers dont have a clue on how things work. The upfront marketing makes everything look rosie. "Have this inexpensive service and keep your number" - no astrick. "All you need is hi-speed internet" - no astrick about DSL constraints. No doubt, the marketing people do not want anything in their advertizing or the upfront Web information which will even make a prospective customer blink. So unless you ask specific questions you might get surprised. However, marketing doesnt look at it this way. They consider it bad to have anything which turns a customer off on a first glance. VT is first and foremost a business and marketing will raise hell about any upfront information that DSL service may not suit a prospective Voip customer with porting in mind or the fact that they are stuck with POTS dial tone. Those darn marketing people!!

[wayne8888]

When you order Dry-Loop DSL, the telphone company (at least in the case of Verizon) gives you a new dialtone-free number associated with your DSL service. If ATT is like Verizon, dryloop will cost about $5 more per month but that is way less than the $18 that the cheapest phone service cost after taxes and surcharges(DSL charge plus $5 compared to DSL charge plus $18). For DSL customers who want to keep your number, you probably have to order the dry-loop DSL to be initiated at the time that the porting goes through or immediately there after. If you order it too soon you might lose your original number. You can probably communicate and coordinate with ATT. They have an incentive to at least keep you as a DSL customer. I now use VOIP with Cable internet which affords me the ability to put (Vonage and now ViaTalk) signal on all the jacks in my house just by running the male-male phone cord between the VOIP adapter and the nearest wall jack.
Wayne

[KLH]

ATT's dry DSL costs about the same (maybe a few dollars more or less) than a standard POTS line and DSL.

When I signed up for DSL with ATT, I went ahead and purchased a phone line also, since it was basically the same price. I never use the phone line, but at least I know I have a backup for 911, and for when the power goes out.

[bobllama]

To sbradshaw: Why would I expect VT to set up the dry loop for me? Well, as a consumer, I expect one of two things:

1) VT informs me first of all about what a dry loop is. They then inform me that they don't do it for me, but that it is necessary should I choose to port my number. Really that is not asking a lot.

2) Since VT informed me neither about dry loops nor about porting = disconnecting, one would assume they would not inform consumers because they don't need to, because they'll do it for you.

Honestly, I would have been fine with paying for a dry loop. The savings from getting a VoIP line more than make up for it.

There are several things VT could have done to prevent this from happening, things that most likely wouldn't impact their sales nor cost them any money.

But they didn't.

And I've called Robert Musgrave, VP of Customer Relations or whatever his title is (he's the person you get transfered to when you ask to talk to a supervisor) about 15 times already. I've never actually gotten to talk to him, though.

Apparently getting you to sign up is more important than getting you to stay with them.

[sbradshaw]

Apparently getting you to sign up is more important than getting you to stay with them.

I don't know of any VOIP provider that does what you are asking VT to do. There's always going to be someone that thinks VT should have done just a little bit more for them. Education of technology can be a bit painful.

[bobllama]

You've got some nerve.

I'm asking VT to "do a little more for me"? I'm telling them they should put a very simple statement somewhere in the FAQ and/or the porting form. Truly a monumental task to undertake.

And for the record, in most western European countries, the VoIP providers will set up the dry loop for you. I know this because I just moved back from Paris. All I had to do was sign up and they set everything up for me, dry loop included.

Check the forums, I'm not the only person this has happened to. And you can be sure that for every person on the forums who had this problem there are plenty others who just haven't posted.

[sbradshaw]

I'm asking VT to "do a little more for me"? I'm telling them they should put a very simple statement somewhere in the FAQ and/or the porting form. Truly a monumental task to undertake.

And for the record, in most western European countries, the VoIP providers will set up the dry loop for you. I know this because I just moved back from Paris. All I had to do was sign up and they set everything up for me, dry loop included.

Check the forums, I'm not the only person this has happened to. And you can be sure that for every person on the forums who had this problem there are plenty others who just haven't posted.
You did mention that you would have thought VT would help get the dry loop setup for you by providing some kind of notification or communication to AT&T. As we are not in Europe, but in the US, I don't know of any provider in the US that is going to do that for you. I have several VOIP providers and none of them even hint of this kind of help. Could a US VOIP provider offer that kind of assistance someday in the future? Maybe, if that is the edge they needed to win over customers. But for now, I really don't see that happening. The best recommendation I can offer you is for you to submit a ticket and politely ask VT to include some new language in their FAQ or on the port form to speak to DSL. I agree that it would be helpful for them to provide some kind of warning for DSL users to look into a dry loop with their current ISP before attempting the number porting process. I think that is about as far as they will go, though, for now.

[DracoFelis]

To sbradshaw: Why would I expect VT to set up the dry loop for me? Well, as a consumer, I expect one of two things:

1) VT informs me first of all about what a dry loop is. They then inform me that they don't do it for me, but that it is necessary should I choose to port my number. Really that is not asking a lot.

2) Since VT informed me neither about dry loops nor about porting = disconnecting, one would assume they would not inform consumers because they don't need to, because they'll do it for you.
This has come up several times on the VoIP forum over at DSLREPORTS. And the general consensus is the same.

It's well known to anyone who does their homework (for example, that issue is frequently discussed on various internet forum posts that discuss any phone number "porting"), that ANY NUMBER PORTING (not just number porting to VoIP, but also number porting to other telcos, porting to your cell phone, etc) of a number that has DSL is under most circumstances going to get your DSL disconnected (unless you make special arrangements with your telco ahead of time, to keep your DSL after a port goes through). This happens with pretty much all phone providers (not just ViaTalk), and this is usually NOT mentioned in any provider's advertising (but is trivial to find on the web, with just a little searching).

While I'm sure it could have been more "customer friendly" if VT had clearly brought this to your attention (perhaps as a "warning" when you start the porting process?), any "warning" they might give you is going "above and beyond the call of duty" IMHO. If you are asking for "porting", it is assumed (in your case, incorrectly) that you know the consequences of that "porting". And one very common "gotcha" with a number port, is that you might loose your DSL if/when the number was previously on a line which also had DSL.

So IMHO the bottom line is, you didn't do your homework (i.e. read up on VoIP and number porting) first, and then are now angry because a problem (that anyone who had done their homework would have known to watch out for), bit you.

[Agrajag]

Bob, I see both parties having some issues here. Yes, ViaTalk could have informed you of this possible problem. I agree with you there. I also believe, having gone through this myself, that you could have known this with a simple phone call.

I called Verizon here for a family member and asked what would happen and they explained exactly what you experienced. So, I immediately came up with a plan that worked around this. It was complicated but, in the end, worth it.

1) Call the phone company and have them add a second phone line.

2) Once that line is active, call back and have them move DSL to the new second phone line.

3) Once that is verified as completed, start the porting process.

4) Once the porting process is completed call the phone company and cancel the second phone line converting it to just dry-loop service. Be CERTAIN your phone company supports dry-loop DSL service. Some may not. If they don't then you can still do everything but this final step.

[kubiaka]

Bob, all I see here is one customer angry at himself for not researching his purchase and finding out that his telco screwed him over. We have all been screwed by the telcos on occasion. I know I have. I am telling you now though, that is absolutely no reason to take out your frustration on ViaTalk who did no wrong here. I had to totally switch to cable broadband service here in my area because my baby bell phone company here won't allow you to have DSL at all unless you purchase a land line from them. I can see why this frustrates you cause if I had ported my number from the baby bell without first getting the cable broadband I would be in the same boat you are. I did however read all about VOIP number porting on the internet before I made the switch and found out that a lot of the time the telco will most likely disconnect your DSL along with the land line. Then with a call to my baby bell here, they informed me that indeed it was true and they did not allow DSL without a standard land line. Talk about a monopoly! So you see, I know not everyone is tech savvy, but just like the law, ignorance of it is NO EXCUSE when the resources are plentiful to get the information you need. I have had ViaTalk quite a while now, have no problems, excellent service, and am saving about $120 a month not paying the baby bell in my area!