"un-porting" number

[dinotheo]

Hi all,
Is it easy to have my ported number ported back to my regional Bell provider and have a new number issued by VT?
I ask because I am at my not happy at all with this service. It feels like I just tossed $200 out the window (Paid for 1 + 1 year), but figure I might as well keep the VT with a cordless phone plugged directly into it since I paid for it. In the week that I've had VT, I have the following issues:

- LONG delays after dialing a number and before it starts to ring.
- Hear echoes of my voice
- People often can't hear me.
- None of my DirecTV receivers can dial out (I've tried a bunch of prefixes and spent over an hour going through possible prefixes)
- My home alarm can't dial out (Granted I knew that this was possible)

I have a good friend that has Vonage and he doesn't have any of the issues I have (including his alarm being able to dial out). I think my friend's experience made me believe that this was a plug and play experience. The reason that I didn't go with Vonage was they didn't offer Anonymous call block. I've had that feature with Verizon for a few years and I get NO telemarketing calls.

I know that I'll get responses about try this or try that, but in all honesty I don't have the urge to sit here and try to "troubleshoot" these issues. (I am a systems engineer and I get enough of this stuff at work all day)

This all came to a head tonight when my wife was talking to her mom and I heard her start yelling, "Hello, Hello" (her mom couldn't hear her any longer). I thought that she was going to throw the phone through the window.

[KLH]

Porting back to a POTS line should be easy.
However, you will have to get VT to issue you a new number, and that costs I think around $10.
I would wait until after the port goes through, and then email viatalk and tell them you ported your number, and would like to have a new one assigned to your account.

[taylor2767]

Iwould venture to guess your service issues are related to:

1.your UL and DL speeds - you need a minimum of 300k upload to avoid quality issues
2.Your router/configuration. I recommend the Lindsys WRT54GL w/ QOS
3.outdated modem. Any updated Moto.

[kdodh]

I agree with Taylor on his first point. When I first started using Viatalk, I had a 160k upstream connection, and I had problems with the dialing delays and overall quality. Since upgrading my DSL connection to 384k, quality has improved tremendously and there are no dialing delays.

Another thing that helps with dialing out is to press # after you dial the number.

[dinotheo]

Iwould venture to guess your service issues are related to:

1.your UL and DL speeds - you need a minimum of 300k upload to avoid quality issues
2.Your router/configuration. I recommend the Lindsys WRT54GL w/ QOS
3.outdated modem. Any updated Moto.

1. I've got a good 600K+ upload speed. (Per speakeasy.net)
2. I've got a Belkin G (Mimo) Router (less than a year old). I don't want to swap out my router.
3. My modem is about a year old. (Verizon swapped it out last year)

Maybe my expectations were too high. I've talked to a few coworkers today that all have Vonage and none of them have/had problems with their DirecTV receivers and alarms (those that have monitored alarms). None of them have any voice quality issues either.
I called my alarm company today and they want $350 installed and $10/month more to install a cellular backup. Although I know this is safer (because a burglar can just cut your phone line) I really want the monitoring for the smoke detectors.


Dino

[Brian188]

I know you're not interested in troubleshooting but most likely putting your adapter in the DMZ will fix the quality issues. Especially with the NAT firewall that is on your Belkin. If you don't know how to put the adapter in the DMZ search on here, or open a ticket with VT and they will give you step by step instructions.

As for the delay when dialing, call VT and they can fix your Dial Plan to correct that. Or you can dial 11 digits or a # after the number in the mean time.

The Directv box needs to be programmed to dial *99, (pause) before dialing whatever number it needs to dial.

Can't help with the alarm, don't know anything about it.

[dinotheo]

I know you're not interested in troubleshooting but most likely putting your adapter in the DMZ will fix the quality issues. Especially with the NAT firewall that is on your Belkin. If you don't know how to put the adapter in the DMZ search on here, or open a ticket with VT and they will give you step by step instructions.

As for the delay when dialing, call VT and they can fix your Dial Plan to correct that. Or you can dial 11 digits or a # after the number in the mean time.

The Directv box needs to be programmed to dial *99, (pause) before dialing whatever number it needs to dial.

Can't help with the alarm, don't know anything about it.


Thanks for the responses folks,

My adapter has been in a DMZ since the beginning. A pet peeve that I have noticed is that if I change it to static ip address, it reverts to DHCP when rebooting. (probably an easy fix, but I didn't look long and hard to find a solution to this) This is a bit of a problem since I have over 20 devices at my home that get IP addresses. So I have to babysit the device to make sure its IP address hasn't changed.

The *99 does not work for me (not just me, there is a thread about this problem). I got one of my receivers (HDTivo) to work with *99,,*79,,#304 and then some dialing prefix in NY (though this same code doesn't work on another receiver). I have more than 10 DirecTV receivers. I really don't feel like going through every one of them to find the right combination of codes that will work.

Tonight I decided to give VT another shot. I called tech support. Waited on the phone for a WHILE and then....the call dropped. Grrrrr!!!!!!! I'll probably port my number back to Verizon and cancel the VT service. (minus $100 "cancellation fee")

I hope others have better luck than me. Although the pricing and features are very attractive, I found the service to not be ready for prime time.

Dino
www.thetheos.com

[Brian188]

Wow that's quite a network you have going there. Sorry to hear you're having so many problems. I hope VT can work them out for you. I can vouch for the fact that there have been a lot of problems with support as of late. Even calling the 800# has been an issue. Usually, their support is awesome. (if and when you get through)

To keep the static IP you need to have the Static IP, Gateway, NetMask and Primary DNS (best to use your router/gateway) fields filled in on the system tab. And VT has to do it for you, otherwise it is reset every time your adapter is provisioned (once per hour) thereby losing the DMZ config. when the adapter (or network) is re-set. Or you can do it yourself and turn off provisioning if you have the admin password to the PAP2.

Good Luck!

[dinotheo]

Wow that's quite a network you have going there. Sorry to hear you're having so many problems. I hope VT can work them out for you. I can vouch for the fact that there have been a lot of problems with support as of late. Even calling the 800# has been an issue. Usually, their support is awesome. (if and when you get through)


Good Luck!

Yeah, I have a pc connected to every tv in my home. I also have 4 additional standalone PC's, a server with redundant nics (teamed) and 3 laptops. Lot's of IP addresses. (Not much traffic though as I am only using 1-2 machines at one time)

Dino
www.thetheos.com

[taylor2767]

1. I've got a good 600K+ upload speed. (Per speakeasy.net)
2. I've got a Belkin G (Mimo) Router (less than a year old). I don't want to swap out my router.
3. My modem is about a year old. (Verizon swapped it out last year)

Maybe my expectations were too high. I've talked to a few coworkers today that all have Vonage and none of them have/had problems with their DirecTV receivers and alarms (those that have monitored alarms). None of them have any voice quality issues either.
I called my alarm company today and they want $350 installed and $10/month more to install a cellular backup. Although I know this is safer (because a burglar can just cut your phone line) I really want the monitoring for the smoke detectors.


Dino


It appears that your UL speed is good but the Belkin routers are notorious for creating VOIP havoc. I started with Belkin router and they worked fine until I switched to VOIP and the saga started.

I recently went from a Belkin 54G to a MiMO and then to the Belkin N1. All created VOIP hell with dropped calls, delays and connection issues. I then went to the Linksys WRT54GL with Linuix and QOS functionality and I have not had any issues in 2weeks. I would personally change your router and you will probably solve your quality issues.

[hrtanya]

As far as the issues you are describing, they are issues associated with your network.

- LONG delays after dialing a number and before it starts to ring.
(This generally happens if only 7 or 10 digits are dialed. 11 digit dialing is the most efficient method of dialing out)

- Hear echoes of my voice
(This is generally related to a firewall/router or a lack of available bandwidth)

- People often can't hear me.
(This is a firewall/router issue)

- None of my DirecTV receivers can dial out
(There are several suggestions related to this, most of which are available within these forums)

I am sorry to hear that you were having some difficulty contacting support. Our phone support staff is available from 8am to 3am M-F and 8am to 12am S-Su EST.

Regarding porting out your number, you will need to contact the other carrier and you will likely have to fill out a form similar to our LOA. That will begin the port out process. Once it is ported out, please contact our Billing Dept to ensure that you get a new number. There is a one-time fee of $9.95 to change your number.

[n3glv]

Thanks for the responses folks,

My adapter has been in a DMZ since the beginning. A pet peeve that I have noticed is that if I change it to static ip address, it reverts to DHCP when rebooting. (probably an easy fix, but I didn't look long and hard to find a solution to this) This is a bit of a problem since I have over 20 devices at my home that get IP addresses. So I have to babysit the device to make sure its IP address hasn't changed.

The *99 does not work for me (not just me, there is a thread about this problem). I got one of my receivers (HDTivo) to work with *99,,*79,,#304 and then some dialing prefix in NY (though this same code doesn't work on another receiver). I have more than 10 DirecTV receivers. I really don't feel like going through every one of them to find the right combination of codes that will work.

Tonight I decided to give VT another shot. I called tech support. Waited on the phone for a WHILE and then....the call dropped. Grrrrr!!!!!!! I'll probably port my number back to Verizon and cancel the VT service. (minus $100 "cancellation fee")

I hope others have better luck than me. Although the pricing and features are very attractive, I found the service to not be ready for prime time.

Dino
www.thetheos.com


I would first suggest a good QOS router, this can be something as simple as a
d-link "voip accelerator" or a p1 running pfsense.org (wich has traffic shaper and all kinds of other teriffic management).
Your phones could be connected to a p2-p3 running asterisk (trixbox is a great
package) and set up on VT with BYOD plan. Each room can have it's own extension, a ring group to ring all at once, voicemails for everyone in the home, and if you want to play with misterhouse.net you can controll your tivo
s, alarm system and everything else via your phones!

Btw, have had BYOD vt since july 06 and it's been flawless, up till two days ago
when they eliminated a server name w/o telling us. (about 4hr outage till I f ound a fix)

Sincerely,
Jeff Kephart
n3glv
www.voipcoop.org

[bubbanc]

You have 20 devices and don't do DHCP reservations (not sure if your router has this, but if I had 20 devices, I'd make sure it had this). You need to have VT convert the DHCP address to a static IP. Without having a static IP or DHCP reservation, putting it in the DMZ does no good.

[DracoFelis]

- LONG delays after dialing a number and before it starts to ring.
Usually this is related to how you are dialing. You aren't by any chance dialing with either 7 or 10 digits?

If so, try dialing with all 11-digits, and I bet the calls will go through a LOT faster. Alternatively, press the #-key on your phone after you have dialed the number, and the call should again go through "quickly".

NOTE: If this is what is happening to you, and you don't want to use the above "work arounds", there is a actual "fix" for this problem (to make 7 and 10 digit dialing a little faster). However, it's a complex fix that requires you to modify your "dial plan" (which requires access to the "admin password" of your adapter). If you want the "fix", let us know and I'll upload the details to this forum thread.

- Hear echoes of my voice
Echo is caused by a problem with the quality of the equipment on the OTHER END of the call. i.e. the person you are talking to (when you hear the echo) is likely using a cheaper phone on their end of the call (that is leaking some of your voice back to you).

Now, that said, VoIP can make what echo is present much more noticeable to you, due to "latency" (delay in the voice path) issues. And there are a few things you can do to help with this. For example, there are some advanced settings that control the ability of the adapter to try to detect and suppress any echo that is present (although you may need to open a ticket with ViaTalk, to get access to this setting). And it also wouldn't hurt to try different "servers" (which you can choose from the control panel), to see if the sound is better with one server vs another.

- People often can't hear me.
What else are you doing on the internet at the same time? If something else on your LAN is making heavy use of the internet, it can rob the bandwidth needed from your "phone" (because internet often is "first come first served"). When that happens, voice dropouts can and do occur. In that case, you have two viable options:

1) Stop doing other internet when talking on the phone. And that includes "background tasks" such as a computer downloading the latest anti-virus signatures. This approach works because the problem is usually a conflict between the phone's use of the internet and other (computer?) uses you are doing with your internet. BTW: This is the solution I used to use a few years ago.

2) Or go with a technical solution, and get a router with good QoS ("Quality of Service") features, and then tell the router to put the phone at the head of the line, as it were. This works, by letting the router know to always give your phone first priority for your internet, and then let everything else fight over any internet that's left. BTW: And this is the solution I now use.

- None of my DirecTV receivers can dial out (I've tried a bunch of prefixes and spent over an hour going through possible prefixes)
- My home alarm can't dial out (Granted I knew that this was possible)

Both results are to be expected, had you checked any good VoIP forum ahead of time.

VoIP works great for VOICE TRAFFIC, but is generally terrible for carrying any computer data (such as DirectTV receivers, alarm systems, fax machines, etc, use). Some people have gotten this to work, but generally it's a "hit or miss" type thing.

If you really need those features, you need to keep a telco line. Now, you can still use your ViaTalk service as a good "2nd phone line" (with included long distance) into your house. And depending upon how much long distance calling you do, that may still save you money. But don't expect ViaTalk to work well with computer modems (such as your DirectTV uses).

I have a good friend that has Vonage and he doesn't have any of the issues I have (including his alarm being able to dial out). I think my friend's experience made me believe that this was a plug and play experience.
IMHO your friend is just one of the "lucky ones", as this is clearly a YMMV thing. Your friend may get acceptable results with his DirectTV and alarm, but I've hear plenty of reports of Vonage customers have major problems in that area. Vonage uses essentially the same type of technology as ViaTalk uses, and in both cases things like "DirectTV" or alarm systems are "hit or miss".

I know that I'll get responses about try this or try that, but in all honesty I don't have the urge to sit here and try to "troubleshoot" these issues. (I am a systems engineer and I get enough of this stuff at work all day)
Than as a systems engineer, you should realize the limits of the technology. VoIP is not the same experience as a normal phone (despite the misleading marketing of Vonage).

VoIP is streaming IP data packets. And anything that can cause problems for those data packets, can cause problems for the voice stream. And as a systems engineer, it should be obvious to you what internet activities can cause those problems (and what features you can design into your LAN to fight against those problems).

i.e. if you want full "plug and play", stay with POTS. It's a lot more expensive, but it is a much more "plug and play" than any current VoIP offerings.

BTW: I was a Vonage customer a few years ago. And I can tell you from personal experience, that Vonage has had it's share of voice problems as well. In fact, I used to have my Vonage phone be practically unusable whenever a new virulent "worm" was making it's way around the internet (as that "worm" would disrupt my voice packets, as a side-effect of trying to infect a number of PCs)...

This all came to a head tonight when my wife was talking to her mom and I heard her start yelling, "Hello, Hello" (her mom couldn't hear her any longer). I thought that she was going to throw the phone through the window.
Ah, the WAF ("Wife Acceptance Factor"). Yes, if the quality is not up to what your spouse expects, you may not be happy. :rolleyes:

Really, I think you jumped in too quickly. Your choices now are:

1) Go back to telco/POTS service. It's more costly, but there is less to go wrong.

or 2) Add back in POTS service, and then keep the ViaTalk line as a "2nd phone line" (think of it as a cheap LD calling option). Your wife may accept it more, if this is only for LD calls (and she knows how much you are saving on your LD bill). And if you are willing, you could also try to resolve some of the quality issues you are experiencing.

3) Or "roll up your sleeves" and try to figure out (and resolve) your quality issues. As a systems engineer, you should be able to understand the terminology of what needs to be looked at. So with proper testing, and help from others in this forum, we should be able to get to the source of your troubles.

[DracoFelis]

Iwould venture to guess your service issues are related to:

1.your UL and DL speeds - you need a minimum of 300k upload to avoid quality issues
Horse hockey!

You need a minimum of 100k upload, not 300k, to get good voice quality (i.e. you only need 1/3 of the bandwidth you claim is needed). In fact, my DSL line only is only rated for 256k (and actually only gives around 220k in practice), but my ViaTalk calls are usually rock-steady (and that includes the person on the other end hearing me, as I've been on that end of the call as well)!

The real problem usually isn't total bandwidth per se, it's the amount of bandwidth (and the quality of that bandwidth) that your "phone" can use. It wouldn't matter if you had 10meg upload speed, your "phone call" would still suck rocks if/when everything else on your LAN was using up all that bandwidth. So the "trick" to make internet phone calls work, is to either:

1) Limit whatever else you are doing on the internet while the call is in progress. This is the easiest approach to setup, but it can be a PITA to tell people to quit using the internet while talking on the phone.

or 2) Use a device (such as a QoS router) that can prioritize your voice/phone traffic ahead of other internet uses. This is a more advanced option to setup, but once done (assuming you do it correctly) your phone should always be "at the head of the line" for your internet usage (letting other internet activity use whatever bandwidth remains after you phone call gets its share). This option is very nice from the WAF ("Wife Acceptance Factor") standpoint, as it means that the phone usually "just works" no matter what else you are doing on the internet at the same time.

[IronHelix]

First off, VoIP is only as good as the internet link it runs across, which includes the router. Many cheap consumer routers play hell with VoIP, keep this in mind. You need to make your network 'VoIP friendly', that's just the way it is. I would recommend a Linksys WRT54GL (note the L) router with DD-WRT V23 SP2 firmware, available at www.dd-wrt.com. It's easy to install and has a great QoS function.


Anyway, VoIP is NOT just plug and play. If you want PnP, get POTS. Hopefully the following will help you a bit more...


LONG delays- as was stated, this can occur if you use 7 or 11 digit dialing. However it can also be fixed- if you get the admin password to your pap2, you can modify the dial plan string. There are tutorials for how to do this, google for them. Check the voxilla forums too. Or if you PM me the string i'll try and tweak it to make 7/10 digit calls go faster... i dont have a standard dialplan in front of me or i'd just post one.

Echoes- this is often due to bad house wiring, or a problem on the other end. It can also be fixed by tweaking echo cancellation and gain settings on your ATA.

People can't hear you- sounds like a network issue. Possibly your router is causing a problem.

DirecTV- this can often be fixed by tweaking gain settings. Try setting RX gains to -2 or -3. Make sure disable ECAN for fax is turned on. These settings are in the pap2 admin page.

Home alarm- above could help. Also call your alarm company and make sure your alarm is reporting in "Contact ID Format". Alternatively, ask them to send someone to change your format to something else. There are several ways for alarms to transmit their signal, Contact ID is the most common and usually works best with VoIP.
However the more likely problem with your alarm is that you are 'backfeeding' your house- that is you disconnected your telco interface and plugged the PAP2 into a phone jack. If this is the case, your alarm will not work at all if it was wired correctly.
Alarms are supposed to be wired through a thing called an RJ-31X jack. It's near or in your alarm panel, looks like a Cat5 cable (RJ45 plug) It's set up wired as a passthru to the telco interface, so the phone line goes telco-NID-RJ31x-alarm-RJ31x-house. This is so that when the alarm dials out, it will sieze the line (disconnecting the house phones) and prevent phones in the house from interfering with the transmission. Of course if you are backfeeding, then it disconnecting the line also disconnects it's phone access. To fix this you should either wire the PAP2 to feed straight into where the NID was (thus making the line go through the RJ31x) or have an alarm tech rewire the alarm to accomidate the backfeed- which will mean you don't get line siezure.

You should also keep in mind though with the alarm- VoIP is more complex and there are more components to fail (coax into house, modem, router, power, cat5 cabling, and phone line back to the alarm; vs phone wiring into house and that's it)- thus if there is a fire or something it is more likely that your alarm will work using a POTS line. This is more an issue if your alarm also has a fire alarm or smoke sensors that call the fire dept.

[DracoFelis]

First off, VoIP is only as good as the internet link it runs across, which includes the router.
That really sums it up, pretty well.

Many cheap consumer routers play hell with VoIP, keep this in mind. You need to make your network 'VoIP friendly', that's just the way it is. I would recommend a Linksys WRT54GL (note the L) router with DD-WRT V23 SP2 firmware, available at www.dd-wrt.com. It's easy to install and has a great QoS function.
If the OP really wants a QoS router for their network, DD-WRT is likely a very good choice (and also btw the firmware I use in my router).

Anyway, VoIP is NOT just plug and play. If you want PnP, get POTS.
And that's the real problem here. Because even if/when the provider (in this case ViaTalk) handles the adapter setup themselves, they don't have control over the setup of your network/LAN.

And in the case of the OP, the LAN is apparently bigger (with more devices) than most home users have. And the more devices you have using bandwidth, the greater your chance that some device's use of bandwidth with interfere with the data packets used by your "phone" (thereby causing call quality problems). So IMHO the bigger your LAN is, the more you really "need" good QoS on your LAN (so that you have some way to put the VoIP phone device at the front of the data queue, at least as far as traffic on your LAN is concerned).

People can't hear you- sounds like a network issue. Possibly your router is causing a problem.
Good point. I had forgotten that some routers actually like eating VoIP packets. Of course my guess (that other traffic on the LAN is fighting with the phone for bandwidth), is also a distinct possibility (given the number of devices the OP has on his LAN).

Thankfully, the solution to both problems would likely be the same, i.e. new router that handles VoIP and QoS well. And I agree with you, that a good "cheap" (well under $100) way to get such a router, is to get an inexpensive router that can take the open source http://www.dd-wrt.com firmware (as the DD-WRT firmware has a very good implementation of QoS written into it).

The problem, of course, is that the OP really wanted this to be all "plug and play", and might not want to go to the time and expense of "fixing his LAN", just to make the VoIP work better.


DirecTV- this can often be fixed by tweaking gain settings. Try setting RX gains to -2 or -3. Make sure disable ECAN for fax is turned on. These settings are in the pap2 admin page.
I didn't know that. It's nice to see that there are some settings that can sometimes help in this area. However, even if there are settings that can make VoIP more reliable in this area, it's still the case that VoIP and computer data are a "hit or miss" YMMV thing. Those settings may improve your odds of success, but you may still find that they may not be enough for any given situation.

Home alarm- above could help. Also call your alarm company and make sure your alarm is reporting in "Contact ID Format".
To fix this you should either wire the PAP2 to feed straight into where the NID was (thus making the line go through the RJ31x) or have an alarm tech rewire the alarm to accomidate the backfeed- which will mean you don't get line siezure.
You should also keep in mind though with the alarm- VoIP is more complex and there are more components to fail (coax into house, modem, router, power, cat5 cabling, and phone line back to the alarm; vs phone wiring into house and that's it)-
All good advice.

However, that last point deserves repeating. VoIP has more that can FAIL, and therefore will not be quite as reliable (i.e. not quite as much "up time") as POTS. So do you really want your alarm system (that you are using to help protect you against disaster) to be dependent upon your VoIP (that may not be up when you need it)? Seems like that approach is "Penny wise and pound foolish", as the saying goes...