AMD64 - how is it better in practical terms

[Tammy]

I saw a really good deal on a laptop with the new AMD64 chip posted on another forum and was wondering if you guys could give me an idea of what advantages it gives? My limited understanding is that isn't really any better than current chips because it requires appropriate software that is tailored to take advantage of it, and there isn't much software like that out. Maybe I'm wrong about that. Would I really see much improvement by having such a system over a current one running at the same speeds?

[SnakEyez]

Ok here is the deal. The AMD 64 mobile chip is fairly new and I haven't seen it tested too much so on a laptop I don't know the overall performance enhancements in comparison to the Intel Centrino stuff.

However, on a desktop I can tell you that you don't need 64 bit applications to take advantage of the processor's speeds and capabilities. The AMD 64 is like the IBM PowerPC 970 (the Apple G5) in that it can run both 32 and 64 bit applications. Although there is a Windows 64 bit edition, there seems to be a delay in the AMD version of the OS. That should be available by the end of the year (well before Longhorn's release). You will see improvements in regular apps with graphics, and some improvements with games.

My recommendation to you would be to test one of the AMD 64 laptops in a store. Try running as many apps as you can on it (given the amount of ram). The reason I say this is because I don't know how good the fans are on 64 bit chips because IBM has been pretty slow in releasing theirs due to the amount of fans that are required to keep these early 64 bit chips cool. So if it heats up too quick I wouldn't recommend buying it and would suggest you go to Intel's Centrino stuff, but if the fans work fine then go with AMD it will be better in the long run.

[metawu]

How is it on battery life? It sounds like it uses a lot of power.
Or does 64bit lets you do more with less like the centrino?

[SnakEyez]

It will probably use more power than a Centrino because of the chip is in its early stages, but I doubt it would be enough to make a difference.

[EodLabs]

Some things to consider is AMD runs alot hotter then Intel. I have a AMD64FX-51 and it gets HOT inside their. Also Centrino has been built from the Core as a LapTop based Chipset, so it's power consumption is going to be better assuming this was their intent. But I like AMD, i think they pack a punch, and in Laptops, if the price is right, and you like it's look an feel, then I'd say go. I love my AMD tower.....

(ps: before anyone blasts me :D I dual boot XP and Suse 9.0 pro , one 32bit one 64bit so i don't get the "Wasting My Money" factor :p )

Hope that helped...

-Mike

[gaustin]

AMD's 64bit CPUs run _much_ cooler than Intel's 64bit offerings.(not 100% sure how different the AMD 64 mobile is)

It _will_ burn more power than a Centrino but AMD 64 isn't designed from the ground up to be an ultra-low power embedded processor.(If you want real low power IA chips check out Transmeta offerings)

As for software I only have something to add to what SnakEyez said. Anything that was originally designed on a 32-bit system that has a compiler that's been ported to AMD64 can just be recompiled on a 64-bit machine to get 64-bit performance.*

But definately go with what SE said and get your hands on one and try it out before you buy.

*= yes, I know -- oversimplification

[metawu]

For applications where you do image rendering like in 3D MAX or Photoshop is the 64bit really imrprove rendering time vs the 32 bit?

And what about the centrino vs 64bit? vs P4?

[EodLabs]

Originally posted by gaustin
AMD's 64bit CPUs run _much_ cooler than Intel's 64bit offerings.(not 100% sure how different the AMD 64 mobile is)


I don't know if i can entirely agree with that.... I couldn't really find any proof that shows it significantly runs hotter then AMD. They both may run about the same..... but reguardless the thread really entails about a laptop pulling AMD64, and less to an Intel Itaniaum which i don't even know if they have in a laptop (I'm guessing not)

-Mike

ps:Not bashing, i just don't understand why, and haven't seen a difference or read about it anywhere. Please post an artical that shows me...:cool:

[gaustin]

Oh crap I just realized why we're disagreeing here. You must be talking about the new generation Itanium. The low voltage version, Itanium 2.

IIRC(as I can't find adequate thermal info on the Intel site),Itanium dissipates 135w at 1ghz and Opteron dissipates 85.7w(possibly lower) at 1ghz.

AMD Opteron Thermal Info (http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/30417.pdf)

[EodLabs]

Originally posted by metawu
For applications where you do image rendering like in 3D MAX or Photoshop is the 64bit really imrprove rendering time vs the 32 bit?

And what about the centrino vs 64bit? vs P4?

First off, we need to compare apples to apples, and not apples to oranges. Centrino is computing wise is going to be the lowest, but best on battery. 64Bit (AMD Or Intell) is only better when on an 64Bit OS. P4 beats out Centrino, and probably scores the same (give or take brand specs....) against 64bit on 32bit emulation.

And yes, photoshop, 3dMax, hell LightWave would all run 20 times faster on 64Bit then 32Bit.... Hence the reason workstations that run these programs are $$$. But why would anyone want a laptop for these process's anyways is a question that comes to my mind.... I have a laptop for the road, and run photoshop, dreamweaver, but this is for the road only. If i need to get some real work done, i sit down at the AMD64 Tower. :p

-Mike

[Tammy]

That's what I was thinking, that an AMD64 for a laptop might be overkill, at least for now. But a lot of people just use a laptop these days instead of a desktop, too.

[EodLabs]

I agree that a large portion of people do use laptops then desktops. But I guess this really comes down to the topic of price.

Are you going to be one of those people who only uses a laptop, if yes, then i'd go overkill.:p

If not, or just for road work then no.
Hope that helps, i think i ramble sometimes....

-Mike

[Tammy]

That does help, thanks. :) I'm still too much a fan of my desktop to go the whole way with laptops yet. Laptops are great, but I don't want to spend all day every day looking at one. ;)

[metawu]

Yea, thanks for the info.

I was just thinking about laptops cause I do lots of design work both at home and school. I thought it would be nice to have computer when I go somewhere and take pictures (hard to see a good preview in a 1.5 inch screen), maybe edit them or make something with them.

I'll prob be happy with anything more a 1.4 ghz though. :)
Just don't want anything that'll be outdated too soon.

[Tammy]

Well, I still have my old 300 MHz gateway laptop, and except for the half hour or so it takes to boot up, it still gets all the basics of word processing and so forth done just fine. But when I get a new one, I want to get another one that also will still be good to go four years later like this one....

[EodLabs]

I use a Acer Travel Mate Laptop. Sucker is super slim and light, at only 6.5 pounds feels like air next to others. Not the most powerfull, but basically runs exchange for my work use, and does presentations (which are usually projected at client side anyways :cool: ) But when it comes time to do work, I definatly need my Dual Moniter Tower. I just feel more comfortable at it, along with it's abuse of power:p . Laptops are usually 10-15 months behind towers overall (usually, if not price will make you wish it where)


-Mike
(ps: i hate my acer travelmate, but I was given it, not a choice :)

[Tammy]

Originally posted by EodLabs
(ps: i hate my acer travelmate, but I was given it, not a choice :)

What is it about it that you hate?

[EodLabs]

Before I totally rip it apart :D I will say that it has good battery life, Runs the applications I need, and is very small/compact,Wi-fi, which I love about it. Now why i hate it... god... It's so UnderPowered.... (compared to a desktop) It's hard on my eyes (I don't wear glass's, but I'm going to need to if i continue to use it... hehe) When i use it at home, i have to hook it up to another moniter... Plus it's contruct feels very un-sterdy or built very cheaply. Those are my gripes mostly. If it had a better shell, little nicer screen I'd be in love with it, behind my lover of course(the amd64fx-51 tower)

-Mike

[Tammy]

The screen is soooooooooooo important, I can understand your frustration. Thanks for the review.

[gaustin]

I want to build a dual Opeteron or AMD64 workstation...it's just cost prohibitive for personal use.

[EodLabs]

Originally posted by gaustin
I want to build a dual Opeteron or AMD64 workstation...it's just cost prohibitive for personal use.

Depends what your willing to spend ;) .

I have a AMD64 FX-51 With Thermal Take Volcano Fan/Heatsink on an Nforce3 Pro mobo, 2 Gigs of Crucial DDR ram, Nvidia 5900 Ultra (256 DDR), Plextor 8x DVDCDR, 2XWD Raptor 32gig drives (10,000rpm Raid 0) In a Climate Controlled Thermal Take XaserIII case with an 550 Watt Anatec Power Supply. Whole Thing cost me around $3,950. It's expensive for a desktop, but in the workstation world it's nothing..... Plus it Really pushes, i use LightWave and Maya, and I can't imagine using anything less then these specs. Plus Enemy Territory (RTCW) looks pretty as well :p . All depends what your willing to spend I guess, and also, what you want to do with it. I got to wright mine off as a work expense, so theirs a couple bucks right there. Also I'm a glutten for massive personal use computers.

-Mike

[gaustin]

My little XP chip is more than enough to use Gnome Metacity, gcc, firebird, and emacs. I don't really play games anymore except Tetris and some other simple 2d things.

Still....I bet you could compile GTK and QT reeeeeeellly fast.

[Tammy]

Originally posted by EodLabs
Depends what your willing to spend ;) .

I have a AMD64 FX-51 With Thermal Take Volcano Fan/Heatsink on an Nforce3 Pro mobo, 2 Gigs of Crucial DDR ram, Nvidia 5900 Ultra (256 DDR), Plextor 8x DVDCDR, 2XWD Raptor 32gig drives (10,000rpm Raid 0) In a Climate Controlled Thermal Take XaserIII case with an 550 Watt Anatec Power Supply. Whole Thing cost me around $3,950. It's expensive for a desktop, but in the workstation world it's nothing..... Plus it Really pushes, i use LightWave and Maya, and I can't imagine using anything less then these specs. Plus Enemy Territory (RTCW) looks pretty as well :p . All depends what your willing to spend I guess, and also, what you want to do with it. I got to wright mine off as a work expense, so theirs a couple bucks right there. Also I'm a glutten for massive personal use computers.

-Mike

That's quite a set-up. 2 gigs of RAM, your system must fly. Very impressive.

[EodLabs]

Originally posted by Tammy
That's quite a set-up. 2 gigs of RAM, your system must fly. Very impressive.

I do alot of rendering, and other fun stuff that is CPU intesive as all hell. Plus I have blade servers at work, and was running a dual 900 mhz chip set at my house, which just wasn't cutting it any more. Wanna see over kill , check out Mach 3.8 Super Computer (Desktop) (http://www.go-l.com/desktops/machl38/features/index.htm)

Thing Is fowl, i want an army of them :) Just couldn't talk boss into giving me one :D

-Mike

[EodLabs]

Originally posted by gaustin
My little XP chip is more than enough to use Gnome Metacity, gcc, firebird, and emacs. I don't really play games anymore except Tetris and some other simple 2d things.

Still....I bet you could compile GTK and QT reeeeeeellly fast.

Linux just runs better. I have a 933mhz computer, with 256ram, and a crappy gforce2 mx with 64megs, and Enemy Territory plays very smooth on it, but same game in windows looks like a shot out of the Jason X movie, it sucks :p .

-Mike

[Tammy]

Originally posted by EodLabs
I do alot of rendering, and other fun stuff that is CPU intesive as all hell. Plus I have blade servers at work, and was running a dual 900 mhz chip set at my house, which just wasn't cutting it any more. Wanna see over kill , check out Mach 3.8 Super Computer (Desktop) (http://www.go-l.com/desktops/machl38/features/index.htm)

Thing Is fowl, i want an army of them :) Just couldn't talk boss into giving me one :D

-Mike

Yes, a friend is a graphics artist, I know they need high specs. Back in the early '90s, he used to be so proud of his 32 megs of RAM, which sounded so exotic then, like, who would ever need that much? But of course now he probably has what you have, or even more.

[EodLabs]

The ram is fun. My favorite old time PC great would be those Paper cutouts you put on your F-keys, like a shortcut menu. I used to have a cutout for TrueSpace and LightWave. and switch them.... I guess they've given up on those..... so tight.... hehehe.

-Mike

[Tammy]

Originally posted by EodLabs
The ram is fun. My favorite old time PC great would be those Paper cutouts you put on your F-keys, like a shortcut menu. I used to have a cutout for TrueSpace and LightWave. and switch them.... I guess they've given up on those..... so tight.... hehehe.

-Mike

Oh my, I remember those cut-outs. Templates were cool, too, in programs like Word Perfect, where they would tell you that alt-F was for a paragraph and Control-G was for indentation and stuff like that. ;)

[EodLabs]

Originally posted by gaustin
I want to build a dual Opeteron or AMD64 workstation...it's just cost prohibitive for personal use.

How So ? I mean what is your price range, i'm sure you can build a nice AMD64 tower for under $2000.

-Mike

[gaustin]

I really don't like to spend more than about 600-800 dollars on a new machine. I'll probably stick with my two XP2x00+ machines for another year or two. Then upgrade to whatever is in that range.

It just depends on when I finish school. I only work between 9 and 18 hours a week.