Overclocking

[Tammy]

I have been using and building and modifying computers for, well, a whole lotta years, but never have done any overclocking. I just don't see the point, with processor speeds going up so dramatically anyway. I'm appreciate if some of you overclocking folks could explain why it is considered so cool to get that extra 15% or whatever out of your processor, what you give up by doing it in heat production or chip life or whatever, and some of your experiences. I might even try it one of these days myself.

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by Tammy
I have been using and building and modifying computers for, well, a whole lotta years, but never have done any overclocking. I just don't see the point, with processor speeds going up so dramatically anyway. I'm appreciate if some of you overclocking folks could explain why it is considered so cool to get that extra 15% or whatever out of your processor, what you give up by doing it in heat production or chip life or whatever, and some of your experiences. I might even try it one of these days myself.

Ok.. here's my take on overclocking

Overclock if you can, but don't lay any signifigant money on it.

I replace processors every 6-12 months, myself, so.. I don't really care about the "reduced processor life"

Additionally, my pentium 4 processor, for example, which has never gone above 40 degrees fahrenheit, will run PERFECTLY well for the duration of it's usability period even if it was at 55.. How do I know this? Because MOST standard cooling solutions for a p4 rig nowadays let it run that temp ANYHOW.

I have a whopping total of $50 invested in my overclocking solution. It's called a big heatsink and a big fan. It is reusable.

People who spend $700 on an air conditioned case, however, are loons.. take that $700 and put it into a FASTER PIECE OF HARDWARE, is my opinion.

Why do I overclock?

Because I am running a 3.0C @ 3.6 and a 3.0C @ 3.75 with NO problems
I'm not getting 15% increase.. it's actually 20% and 25%.. but that's not the point.

Before that, I was running a 2.6c @ 3.12 and an xp2500+ at 2400mhz (Real speed) or around a "xp3700+" performance rating.

I did buy a better heatsink and fan for my p4's (although, my 2.6 ran @ 3.12 on it's STOCK hsf) only because I Really like the security I feel with my thermalright SLK-900U..

MY computer runs like a 3.6 ghz pentium 4 and 3.75 ghz pentium 4.. They outperform the Pentium 4 3.2 Ghz "Extreme Edition" processor which is $960 or so.

I paid $250 or so for each of my cpu's, plus $50 for cooling.

so.. for $600 investment, I've got $1900 worth of performance..

By the time my cpu's burn.. I'll have replaced them anyhow!

[g0ldman]

What is overclocking??

[Unicorn2]

The practice of taking a device, such as a cpu, and running it over it's stated capabilities.

For example. My pentium 4 which is rated as a 3.0 Gigahertz processor is supposed to be run at a base speed of 200 Megahertz with a 15X multiplier.

If I decide to say, run it at 240 Mhz (and my ram, video cards, other devices, too) then I have a speed of 3.6 Gigahertz.

It is argued that doing this will damage your processor, and, in fact, if you don't know what you are doing, it definately will.

However. there are THOUSANDS of people who are doing this (in fact, of the 8 computers I own, 3 are overclocked) because it's a way to get a 'free' bit of speed.

You can arguably, buy say, a pentium 4 2.4C processor right off the shelf at best buy (retail kit) and with the included heatsink and fan, run it SAFELY at say.. 2.8 Gigahertz. DOing this with the $160 cpu instead of the $220 2.8 ghz cpu is a way to get a faster processor for less money.

Why, and how, is this possible, and examples where you'd have to be dumb to not do it.

1) The why is because when a processor, for example, the p4"C" is engineered, they look at what it can do, then they 'pull it back' a little to be conservative. Intel representatives themselves (I have been to one of their demonstrations where they have a real time overclocking utility they wrote, and the rep steps on a GAS PEDAL to overclock his cpu.. starts as a 2.8 and 'crashes' at 4.4) will show you the OVERCLOCKABILITY of their processors.

2) Many processors are released marked as less than what they really are. Most famous are :

Intel Celeron 300a (which was in fact, a pentium 3-450mhz clocked at 66mhz x 4.5 instead of 100mhz x 4.5 with the cache module, which was STILL PRESENT, disabled).. a little trickery, and you had a p3 450 for the price of a celeron 300a.

Amd athlon (slota) 750Mhz : which was a slota 900

Amd Athlon 1 Ghz (socket) which was an athlon 1500mhz (and was able to clock even higher than that) .. My AXIA 1ghz amd has run at 2.08 ghz (i used to have the screenshot to prove it)


3) A lot of other products that are "not pro" are the same thing as a "pro" version. Example.

Radeon 9500 "Non Pro" "Red L-Shaped PC Board" versus Radeon 9700 Pro "Red L-Shaped PC Board"

Both of these video cards use the EXACT same GPU, and usually, the exact same RAM.
The major difference between a 9500 Non and a 9700 Pro were the fact that 4 of the 8 'texturing' units were disabled on the 9500 non pro.

With a little software hack from a man named w1zzard, you magically had yourself a 9700 pro (which were over $300) for the price of a 9500 non pro (under $200)

My current video card. The radeon 9800 Non pro (which I paid $229 for brand new) is in EVERY SINGLE WAY (down to the item codes on the pcb and ram) to a 300+ radeon 9800 Pro.

My card comes, stock, running it's GPU at 324mhz and ram at 290 mhz. The Radeon 9800 Pro comes at 380/345

My video card can do that, and then some.. i currently run at 436.50 and 355.50, and have gone as high as 457/360 (but I like to pull back, as well)

My video card does NOT get hotter than a radeon 9800 pro when it is clocked like one. It gets 3 degrees (celsius) hotter when overclocked . I am using no special cooling.

Clocking my card to "pro" status is perfectly safe, and if you KNOW how to do it, you SHOULD do it.. but going beyond that is "risky"

[Unicorn2]

This is not really much different (i mean the fact that processors and such are released as 'less than they are') then the fact that car manufacturers release cars and UNDERestimate their performance (such as top end) or limit it with a governor.

My jeep, for example, has an official top speed of 110.

Lets just say (that with the governor removed) it's quite a bit faster than that.. stock..

Now, the modifications that have been done to it are even more 'powerful' such as the new ECC and cams/bore job..

but that's "souping up"(overclocking) your car.. I haven't put nitrous in (i haven't water cooled or peltiered my pc) as that is a good way to burn up the engine.. but boring it down a little, and changing it's computer dictated performance profile are well within 'reason'

My jeep has the most impressive performance profile you'll see of ANY vehicle in it's class.. but it's also not quite "stock"..

ever see a jeep grand cherokee squeal it's tires while accelerating? ..

[vanselus]

Unicorn, why is it every time you post I feel like I just drank a pitcher of Guiness?

Except it's my brain that feels full.

I guess I know that much about basses, but you're like a frickin encyclopedia.

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by vanselus
Unicorn, why is it every time you post I feel like I just drank a pitcher of Guiness?

Except it's my brain that feels full.

I guess I know that much about basses, but you're like a frickin encyclopedia.

25 years of experience will do that to ya..


Funny.. everytime I read one of your posts I feel like I need to pass a pitcher of guiness (j/k)

[vanselus]

Sorry about that. But Guiness is pure love in a glass, so you can't be TOO unhappy :D

How do you overclock? Not that i'm going to - but is it in the bios settings upon startup?

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by vanselus
Sorry about that. But Guiness is pure love in a glass, so you can't be TOO unhappy :D

How do you overclock? Not that i'm going to - but is it in the bios settings upon startup?


On newer systems, you can overclock via bios.. on older systems, you may have to do physical modifications to your processor to allow it to happen, then change dips or jumpers on the board.


My asus p4p800 deluxe motherboard has a "smart overclock" feature.. where you can just tell the motherboard to "overclock 5%, 10%" etc.. and it'll do it all for you.

I'm NOT kidding. It's RIGHT in the bios labeled "Overclocking"


CHeck this article.
Here (http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/asus_p4p800_deluxe_review/page4.asp)

[vanselus]

Wow, a bios overclocking option? That's almost like they're advertising it's ok :)

ALthough, from what you said, 10% overclock is pretty much bombproof, right?

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by vanselus
Wow, a bios overclocking option? That's almost like they're advertising it's ok :)

ALthough, from what you said, 10% overclock is pretty much bombproof, right?
No overclocking option (even 1%) is completely guaranteed. Although, honestly, I dont think i've ever tried to overclock and not gotten at least 10% :-)

but.. "use overclocking at your own risk, and only do it if you really can afford to lose almost everything in your computer, including data" because "the worst you can imagine" happening with an overclock gone wrong CAN happen. Peoples processors have caught on fire, drives went belly up, and 100s or 1000s of dollars worth of equipment has been damaged..

on the other extreme, people have gotten 20% and 30% overclocks like me, with no ill effects.

[vanselus]

Oh, I do understand the "risks" and your disclaimers, but I was looking for your real world experience. Good to know people routinely overclock 10-20% with little problems.

The Intel test was pretty eye-opening too!

[Tammy]

Originally posted by Unicorn2
My asus p4p800 deluxe motherboard has a "smart overclock" feature.. where you can just tell the motherboard to "overclock 5%, 10%" etc.. and it'll do it all for you.

I'm NOT kidding. It's RIGHT in the bios labeled "Overclocking"


Cool, sure is different than the old days. That makes it pretty simple, which is the way I like it. Will add this to my list for my next motherboard.

[johnb]

Yeah, you can do pretty much anything in the BIOS on a good board. I miss the good old days when you had to connect traces. *sigh* ;)

[vanselus]

not me. those pins are so tiny i swear I almost ruined 2 motherboards with those stupid jumpers.

[SnakEyez]

Originally posted by Unicorn2

I replace processors every 6-12 months, myself, so.. I don't really care about the "reduced processor life"


I have a question for you then. If you update your processors every 6-12 months, then how good would you rate Windows XP in accepting the new hardware? I have always heard that changing processors is pushing the limits of the Windows "plug and play" concept. Is it hard to set up a new processor once Windows has been running for awhile?

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by SnakEyez
I have a question for you then. If you update your processors every 6-12 months, then how good would you rate Windows XP in accepting the new hardware? I have always heard that changing processors is pushing the limits of the Windows "plug and play" concept. Is it hard to set up a new processor once Windows has been running for awhile?

Changing processors is completely painless.

Changing MOTHERBOARDS is an issue, however.

Changing ram, optical drives, keyboard, and mouse are also all painless.

My current install of XP has seen 4 processors (two actual usage, two for testing.. )

[fac3less]

yeah.. got to change my hd over to a new system soon..

i'll have to wipe.

so be life though.. Asus P4P800 Deluxew00t. :)