Your opinion on Riaa, and mpaa

[sznapsDOTcom]

Whats your opionion on what the organizations such as riaa, mpaa, and others are Doing against downloading of there mercahandise?



Edited the going to doing

[HRGraham]

They suck. Period.

[sznapsDOTcom]

i agree, in a way, For people selling it, They should stop them, but not downloading it...

[SnakEyez]

I think their actions are really ridiculous because the way they gather their material is borderline illegal.

If I ever got into one of those lawsuits I know I would go after the makers of all cd-writers. It's not my fault Sony tells me to buy their cd-writers to burn my own music, yet when you do Sony sues you for getting copyrighted music from them. I think this is just a trap by companies like that who promote these ideas. As far as I am concerned, if they don't know what people are doing with the cd-writers that are being bought, knowing what is in the advertisements, then they are just as ignorant as the tobacco industry.

[Winston]

I think things are very misguided. Currently they are going after people using the file-sharing utilities such as Kazaa, Morpheus... etc... But have they realized that people use IRC, Newsgroups, and other means to download music that is just as rampant as the file-swapping services were? As well as the whole Warez seen, all these companies know they exist, but we haven't seen Microsoft sue people for using illegal copies of XP that may be floating around.

[vanselus]

You can't exactly rationalize the actions of the RIAA in terms of the music industry, because it has nothing to do with music or artists. They're just protecting their interests like any other business does, by using everything in their arsenal. I blame the government for letting that monopoly exist - but don't get me wrong, I don't expect them to do anything about it, not when there's so much money on the WRONG side.

Some artists are doing great things to fight the RIAA and the recording industry, like going with smaller labels, refusing to sign ridiculous contracts, and speaking out on the subject. Branford Marsalis started his own label for just that reason. Unlike those pussies Metallica. Lars is a waste of carbon. Sellouts.

[Viper007Bond]

Some great sites relating to this:

What A Crappy Present.com (http://www.whatacrappypresent.com/)

Downhill Battle.org (http://www.downhillbattle.org/) (the site behind the previous link)

They have cool little stickers you can stick on CDs in stores:

http://www.downhillbattle.org/riaa/lawsuits_label.gif

http://www.downhillbattle.org/riaa/payola_label.gif

Those stickers in action (http://www.downhillbattle.org/riaa/index.html)

I can keep going if you guys are interested. There's a million sites like that.

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by sznapsDOTcom
i agree, in a way, For people selling it, They should stop them, but not downloading it...

Well.. I agree with you if I am understanding you correctly.

I think if you are downloading music, and then selling cd's you burned, you should be jailed.

But if you are just downloading music that, say, you can't afford to buy, and aren't giving it away, or making money off of it.. then thats ok.

I personally have a huge collection of music, and ya know what.. I haven't downloaded a damn thing except for stuff that I cannot GET in this country, such as imports..

I think the tactics employed by the mpaa and riaa are bad, however, playing devils advocate, I think that the riaa at least, has SOME justification for protecting their interests. Lets be realistic here.

If you are a musician just playing in your garage and some random talent scout finds you.. he gets paid for that.. 'the money has to come from somewhere' -- You didn't pay him.

If the guys at xyz records as for a demo reel, then that scout sends you into a studio at xyz's expense.... studio time can be 100s of dollars an hour (someone has to pay all those techs, engineers, and backup musicians).

Then that demo reel has to be sent to the record company and a delivery guy, secretary, and internal agent of xyz has to deliver, receive, and listen to it.

Then xyz has to probably send someone else out to see the band play, or have the band come meet a gajillion people. who all have to be paid to meet your band.

(Mind you, this is before there is even a record deal.. there's already been 100 man hours, studio fees, and delivery personal involved, plus that scout got his $250 or whatever)

NOw.. lets assume all goes well, and xyz records decides to 'sign' your band.

What comes next.. Oh, lawyers and accountants have to prepare a contract, and maybe the band will get a stipend. -- (remember, nobody's made any money off your non-existant record yet).

SO.. the band gets whisked off to the studio to make an album featuring 12 little diddies.. total studio time for the typical album? 3 months. . cost? 100 grand, again.. nobody's made a dime.

So.. the albums recorded, xyz records is down 150K or so..

Now.. we got to get people listening to it. This takes money. You have to send music liasions from your company to all the major radio stations to get them to play it.. if it gets played, and gets popular.. people are PROBABLY (no guarantee, and believe me, there have been quite a few hit songs that had a flop of an album) going to want to buy the album.. now you have to get a cd production house fired up to print off say, 250,000 cd's..

Even if the cd's cost only $1 to produce.. your down 1/2 a million in production and initial hype.

What if the album doesn't sell?

Now.. that was 250grand wasted.
What if the radio won't play it.. 100 grand wasted

There are more of these stories than success stories.

Now.. as for the argument "Well, the artist only gets $1 per copy sold..

well, ya know what? after their 3 months in the studio.. they are DONE working.

If your album sells a million copies..
will $333grand a month pay be ok with you? Yeah, I think so.

Where do artists make their money? Touring.

why do you think pearljam doesn't release albums anymore (Except for 150 professional bootlegs of their tour?)

The "artist" only invests time in the album.. XYZ records invests all the MONEY in the album.

of that $16 you pay for backstreet boys newest album, the record store gets a good $4.
the warehouse the disks are stored in gets $1
the agent gets some, the record company gets some, the delivery guy gets some..etc..etc..etc..

There are 500 other people involved in producing your album.. why should you get all the money.

I mean.. if you owned your own studio, distrubution company, and record stores.. then, yeah, and were your own producer and hype-maker... ok..

Gwen stefani does not call up mtv and say "I want to be on trl"..

Her AGENT calls up and sends some prostitutes to carson dalys' boss to put gwen on.. (hypothetical)..


But I dont' think they have to be nazi's either.

[vanselus]

Damn it. It seems like the only way to get anywhere in this world is with lots and lots of whores.

And believe me, touring is a HELL of a lot more fun that being locked in a studio.

[Fuzzylogic]

http://www.eff.com/
and
www.digitalconsumer.org

Both websites that let you do something to fight for your rights.

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by vanselus
Damn it. It seems like the only way to get anywhere in this world is with lots and lots of whores.

And believe me, touring is a HELL of a lot more fun that being locked in a studio.

As I've actually been a recorded musician, I can agree. (never made it past our region for fame), and good luck finding our music, I don't even own a copy..
But that's why I have 'inside information'

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by Fuzzylogic
http://www.eff.com/
and
www.digitalconsumer.org

Both websites that let you do something to fight for your rights.

Not really.. both of these organizations are pretty much powerless.

[vanselus]

Originally posted by Unicorn2
As I've actually been a recorded musician, I can agree. (never made it past our region for fame), and good luck finding our music, I don't even own a copy..
But that's why I have 'inside information'

What do you play?

[sznapsDOTcom]

monopoly, ?
Riaa isn't affiliated with the government? I'm lost what exactly is the riaa, i know they sue people, thats about it...

[Fuzzylogic]

Originally posted by Unicorn2
Not really.. both of these organizations are pretty much powerless.

Really?

and what gives RIAA power?

Where does one get power from?

[Fuzzylogic]

Originally posted by sznapsDOTcom

I'm lost what exactly is the riaa?,

---

Originally posted by sznapsDOTcom
monopoly,

Riaa isn't affiliated with the government

i know they sue people, thats about it...

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by vanselus
What do you play?

Vocals mainly.. and a little guitar and piano
I stopped singing professionally because I get ill and my voice just isn't what it used to be after strepp throat, every year for 5 years.

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by Fuzzylogic
Really?

and what gives RIAA power?

Where does one get power from?


R.I.A.A. (Recording Industry Association of America) is an ad hoc consortium made of representatives from all signifigant recording companies (such as the screen actors guild, or United Auto Workers..) that represent the best interests of the recording companies. They are empowered because of the BILLIONS OF DOLLARS they have at hand to push soft money, lobbyists, and advertising for their causes into our faces. EFF, which does NOT have billions of dollars at it's core (I doubt if it's millions, in fact), is far from powerful. and digitalconsumer is nothing much more than the website you see.

RIAA has a fully automatic shotgun, and EFF is using nerf darts.

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by vanselus
Damn it. It seems like the only way to get anywhere in this world is with lots and lots of whores.

And believe me, touring is a HELL of a lot more fun that being locked in a studio.

studio has a lot of fun sometimes too.. and the fact that studio means you can get music to people who might never hear it otherwise is nice.

We were mostly a cover band (owning to the fact that we were a poor excuse for songwriters) We were trying to do the van halen approach (except not suck as bad as them) where we'd make ourselves famous from covers, then be able to afford to hire good songwriters. :-)

[vanselus]

True, the challenges of the studio definitely has an appeal. Lots of pressure though, the pressure hurts.

I'll never make money as a musician - I hate covers :)

(and i love the nerf darts analogy!)

[Unicorn2]

Well.. I mean, we had our own songs, but were .. well.. more of a gimmick than anything else .. see, we were all teenagers at the time (sort of like silverchair or something) but we did bar gigs and such, so it was sort of cool for people to hear a 15 year old kid like me belting out whitesnake, or whomever we decided to cover...

[fac3less]

www.radioaid.com

and btw - the riaa has absolutely no power. They were just attempting to use mafia scare tactics to get your isp's to turn over your information and then hope you settle out of court.

They have no power.

ZILCH.

[vanselus]

They may not have real power, but they do have money. And that, as my friends the Joes say, is half the battle.

[Fuzzylogic]

Originally posted by Unicorn2
... EFF, which does NOT have billions of dollars at it's core (I doubt if it's millions, in fact), is far from powerful. and digitalconsumer is nothing much more than the website you see.

RIAA has a fully automatic shotgun, and EFF is using nerf darts.

Well then, I think we see where the problem lies.


Perhaps, and just perhaps, if more people went to their website, contributed to their cause, and wrote to their representatives as suggested in the Action Center (http://action.eff.org/action/index.asp) maybe, just maybe, those organizations would have more power too.

And they even have a nice little To Do list all laid out so even the laziest of people can simply click and go.

As for power, everyone begins with an equal amount of it, the only way one can accumulate power is when that power is surrendered to them by others.

[fac3less]

Well of course its up to everyone to stand up against things they feel are wrong.

I'm not a pirate at heart - I tell you that. I still wouldn't consider myself a pirate. I buy as many albums as I possibly can - but pre-internet had I had any albums at all? nope - not one. I couldn't hear the band other than on the radio and even then I couldn't afford a radio.

I bought my first blink 182 album because of this 'evil pirating'.

Funny.

(I don't like them anymore :b they suck and my musical tastes have changed.. a lot..)

Anyways. If I want to download an album to try it out - or hell just because I can't afford it I will do so as I please.

(I'm sure by now I've had about 400 cease and decist letters.. but I never check my ISP e-mail account so what would I know ;) )

I'm not a pirate. I'm an opportunist.

[Fuzzylogic]

Well theft is still theft, however, trying something is a bit different.

For example RIAA's minions had increased record sales while Napster was running and then after they shut it down their sales dropped... rather odd.

Just because RIAA is evil doesn't make it right to steal, but then they aren't exactly helping their cause either.

At least they are finally allowing people to sell music online.

[vanselus]

It's really easy to tell if you're a pirate. Do you use this?

http://www.clubjuggle.com/files/pirate.jpg

[fac3less]

Well like I said - I've bought tons of albums that I've listened to. I wouldn't call it theft because its the only way I have to listen to albums. Or see if they're worth buying.

Sure I can hear the one song that they overplay on the radio and say 'hey, that album might be good they got one good song'.. and then I listen to the rest of the album (via whatever way I choose) and find out its the only half-decent sounding song. The other way I would have bought the album - found out it was utter crap all on my own and never bought another album again.

This way - I buy what I like. Just as anyone else would.

(those stores that allow you to listen to the cd's via those players on the walls are cool, but I never go to the mall and whatnot. Unless I'm in downtown toronto with the girlfriend.)

[sznapsDOTcom]

Good news from a news site:
Courts Giving RIAA a Hard Time - [General]
Submitted by Forcefire on 12/30/2003 7:01:28 AM

The music industry has had a rough week as it faced setbacks on two fronts. Courts in Europe and the U.S. have thrown out attempts by the recording industry to impose restrictions on file sharing software and to track individual users by obtaining information from ISP's.

The Dutch Supreme Court on Friday rejected an attempt by the music copyright agency to put controls on Kazaa. Buma Stemra, the Dutch royalties collection society, demanded that Kazaa distribution cease and that future versions be modified so that copyrighted materials cannot be exchanged over the network.
The victory by Kazaa creates an important precedent for the legality of peer-to-peer software, both in the European Union as elsewhere, Kazaa's lawyers Bird & Bird said in a statement.
The agency pursuing the demand stated, Today's ruling on Kazaa by the Dutch Supreme Court is a flawed judgment, but still leaves no doubt that the vast majority of people who are using file-swapping services like Kazaa are acting illegally -- whatever country they are in. Although this loss is a setback for the recording industry, there is little doubt that they will seek other ways of pursuing Kazaa, the worrying fact about this decision however, is how, if at all, it may influence a similar case which the recording industry is pursuing in the U.S. against Sharman Networks, Kazaa's new, Australian owners.
The case in the U.S. was more of a surprise since it saw the Appeals Court overturn a ruling which allowed the Recording Industry to obtain user information from ISP's prior to filing a lawsuit. The court went as far as to claim that the industry's legal basis for inundating Internet providers with thousands of subpoenas borders upon the silly. This ruling was another chapter in the saga of the case of Verizon Vs RIAA.

Verizon can not remove or disable one user's access to infringing material resident on another user's computer because Verizon does not control the content on its subscribers' computers, Chief Judge Douglas Ginsburg wrote.
The Recording Industry Association of America began filing lawsuits against individual users this fall, and so far has reached more than 220 out-of-court settlements, usually for USD 5,000 or less.
Many experts suggest that although the, so called, John Doe lawsuits are an expensive and difficult procedure, the RIAA will have to research evidence much more thoroughly, helping it avoid public relations fiascos such as the pursuit of a 12 year old girl for possession of copyrighted nursery rhymes.
Overall a bad week for the RIAA but if we know one thing about them is that they love the courts and especially their lawyers, so expect to hear from them soon.

[Tammy]

What they are really doing is creating a lot of legal precedents regarding how much personal information companies can get from ISPs and such. This was a very murky area. It used to be a lot harder to get personal information from a cable company or AOL or whoever about a subscriber. To the extent the RIAA and MPAA make it easier to get that personal information, it hurts everyone whether they download stuff illegally or not. So I agree with graham, they suck.

[Viper007Bond]

I love how the government is cracking down on the RIAA for using scare tactics and basically using the legal system to blackmail money out of people. 'Bout time. :)

[sznapsDOTcom]

i AGREE!

[Unicorn2]

Self incrimination time.

I own 4 actual Metallica cd's

However.. if james hetfield was at my door, he'd probably be trying to kick my a$$..

Why? Cause I can't even BUY some of the earlier stuff (i go to cdnow, place an order, it processes, then I get notices of backorder.. Have had this happen 3 times)

'nuff said..

[vanselus]

Originally posted by Viper007Bond
I love how the government is cracking down on the RIAA for using scare tactics and basically using the legal system to blackmail money out of people. 'Bout time. :)

Yeah, only the government gets to do that, dammit!

[fac3less]

You own metallica cd's? I feel sorry for you.

I thought owning a blink 182 cd was bad enough.. metallica sucks.. sure they're "hardcore" and about as old as my grandfather.. doesn't make their music good.. :b

[vanselus]

Metallica isn't hardcore - they're pure radio rock now. Sure they may have been hardcore back in the day, but they sold out, cut their hair, and pussified their music.

Hardcore? Pantera. They'll never sell out.

[fac3less]

*watches the news and Pantera does a maxim cover with britney spears.. :b*

Notice how Michelle Branch just got done doing one? that sickens me.. a ton..

I mean I thought the girl was gorgeous.. now shes all hoe no go.

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by fac3less
You own metallica cd's? I feel sorry for you.

I thought owning a blink 182 cd was bad enough.. metallica sucks.. sure they're "hardcore" and about as old as my grandfather.. doesn't make their music good.. :b

I own earlier cd's.

Master of Puppets
Ride The Lightening
The Black album
...And Justice for All

I was UNABLE to successfully purchase both Kill Em All and Garage Days.

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by vanselus
Metallica isn't hardcore - they're pure radio rock now. Sure they may have been hardcore back in the day, but they sold out, cut their hair, and pussified their music.

Hardcore? Pantera. They'll never sell out.


The are in their 40s.
You will tend to mellow out a bit as you get older : I can feel it happening to me ..

Think of it this way.

When rod stewart was a brand new artist, everyone thought how "wild and crazy" he was.. with that "wierd hair" and such..

Is pantera even still making music?

[vanselus]

Nope, Pantera broke up last November.