Dvd Burners

[Winston]

Hey everyone. I am currently thinking about purchasing an 8x Dvd-Burner and wanted to know if anyone has one or any suggestions. I have seen a Plextor 700-8a or something of that sort that looks really good. Just wondering if anyone has one that they have had good luck with! Thanks!

[y6y6y6]

I have a Sony DRU-500 that has been perfect for the last year. Just as easy to use as a CD burner. No problems at all.

[Tammy]

I have a Lite-on 4x DVD+-RW and it works great, the 411. You can get it for well under $100 if you look around. No complaints. PowerDVD is good software to use with your burner, btw.

[Winston]

Wow quick responses:).. I thought about a 4x, but I have seen 8x's now for under $200...and thought might as well go for it if i'm going to spend the money. With some money from Christmas, i'm going all out!

[johca]

Hey everyone. I am currently thinking about purchasing an 8x Dvd-Burner and wanted to know if anyone has one or any suggestions. Advise is difficult without knowing what you want to be able to do. Are you just concerned about DVD duplicating, or perhaps recording a program off the TV? Examples of the complexity of the spectrum of your question is the Panasonic DMR-E50K/S DVD recorder/Player (retails about $374.00), or perhaps a DVD duplicator system that duplicates up to 7 DVDs at the same time, or perhaps something like the Casablanca Prestige with Smart Edit 3.0 & DVD authoring.

Are we talking about dual layer DVD+R technology or not (new technology expected to hit the shelves in April 04).

BTW, DVD burning done on consumer burners (DVD±R) is not the same technology that burns the movie DVDs you rent at Blockbusters or buy from Best Buy.

FYI: I'm currently using Sony’s High performance 8X max Internal
DRU-530A DVD±RW Drives for burning DVDs. (two in each of three PCs).

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by Winston
Hey everyone. I am currently thinking about purchasing an 8x Dvd-Burner and wanted to know if anyone has one or any suggestions. I have seen a Plextor 700-8a or something of that sort that looks really good. Just wondering if anyone has one that they have had good luck with! Thanks!


Look out for the TDK 8X.. it's a rebadged plextor, and it's far cheaper. (i.e. it's the sam exact drive)


I have a pioneer 106D, a LiteOn LDW-411s, and an Hp DvD200i in my home, they are all decent, but I prefer my pioneer.

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by Winston
Wow quick responses:).. I thought about a 4x, but I have seen 8x's now for under $200...and thought might as well go for it if i'm going to spend the money. With some money from Christmas, i'm going all out!

Personally, I think if you don't absolutely need it, hold off. .DualLayer and BD drives are right around the corner.

That will, at the very least, drive prices of the other drives down..

[HRGraham]

I have this in my desktop:
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=uKpdrtim9FRdrudQb21XpZe3WVu2YbLime4=?CategoryName=cpu_Sony_PCAccessories_CD%2fDVDBurn_DVDB urners&ProductSKU=DRU510A&Dept=cpu

However, I think that 8x dvd burners are starting to become more common so you may want to look into one of those.

-Graham

[Winston]

I'm not really into any of that major technical stuff mentioned :) ... However, if I wanted to copy say a movie DVD, I wouldn't be able to do that with a DVD+-R?? Is that what you are saying? I'm not entirely familiar with it but just looking for the best reasonably priced device. I do not want to go over $200 as I don't need anything fancy.

[fac3less]

You can do a lot with existing cd burners if you use google. :) Sometimes you don't need to upgrade along with the rest of the world.. now for some things however dvd 's would be great.. backups and whatnot.

The system next to me has an HP burner in it. I hear they have software issues - I'd definately stick with plextor over any other.

(At least I've heard and read good things about them)

[Fuzzylogic]

Originally posted by Winston
I'm not really into any of that major technical stuff mentioned :) ... However, if I wanted to copy say a movie DVD, I wouldn't be able to do that with a DVD+-R?? Is that what you are saying? I'm not entirely familiar with it but just looking for the best reasonably priced device. I do not want to go over $200 as I don't need anything fancy.

That is correct, many DVDs are dual layered but burners now do not burn dual layers.

So this means that the blank DVDs have half the storage capacity of most movie DVDs.

So you would likely end up with 2 burnt DVDs for each movie DVD.

Besides, if you live in America doing that will get you sent to jail for a long time.

Good ol DMCA and the MPAA.

[Winston]

Its just as bad as copying a music cd I may have. I am not really buying it for that reason, just wondering if I understood what the others were saying. Thanks for the clarification.

[johca]

Hollywood movies are burned into dual-layer discs and dual-side discs at a professional replicating facility using an Authoring Burner and authoring media. There is a big difference between Authoring burner/media and consumer (retail) DVD burners and DVD±R/RW media (general discs). You cannot burn authoring discs in drives meant for general media, and vice versa. Why?

1. Authoring DVDs use a different laser wavelength (635nm, as compared to 650nm for general discs).

2. A mastering cut must be done for each layer of information put onto a professionally burned authoring DVD disc.

3. Not sure but there is also, I can’t find my notes on this, difference on how the information is actually burned into the dye layers and the pits.

There are several DVD formats, involving different combinations of layers of data and sides of the disc. The most common formats are:

DVD-5, which has the data in one layer on one side of the disc
DVD-9, with data in two layers on one side
DVD-10, with data in one layer each on two sides
DVD-18, with data in two layers on two sides.
The different formats involve different capacities.
DVD-5 holds 4.7 Gigabytes of data
DVD-9 holds 8.5 GB
DVD-10 holds 9.4 GB
DVD-18 holds 17 GB

The microscopic pits used to encode the material are of slightly different sizes depending on which type of DVD disc is being made. Pit lengths for a two-layer DVD disc (DVD-9, DVD-18) are somewhat longer than those for a single-layer disc to make up for any interference in reading the two layers. (Thus a single-layer, double-side disc has a greater capacity than a double-layer, single-side disc.)

Therefore, the new DVD discs can store from 4.7 GB (single sided, single layer) up to 17.0 GB (double sided, dual layer per side for a total of 4 layers of information). Each layer of data on a DVD disc will allow up to 133 minutes of full motion MPEG-2 video. This amount of playing time will allow 95% of all movies to be contained on one side of a disc. This new disc will also support a variable bit data rate, which will increase the quality of digital video playback thanks to a substantial buffer memory. The new DVD movie players are also capable of seamless switching between the two layers of information on each side of the disc.

[HRGraham]

Originally posted by Winston
Its just as bad as copying a music cd I may have. I am not really buying it for that reason, just wondering if I understood what the others were saying. Thanks for the clarification.

Actually, it is worse. There is no encryption or copy protection built into an audio cd(atleast most of them). However, there are copy protections(CSS) built into DVD's and it is against the law to break this encryption. If you were caught making backups of your own DVD's I don't think anything would happen. I'm not sure if any of you guys have been following the DVD John trials. He cracked the encryption in order to make DeCSS so he could play DVD's on Linux. He has been acquitted in many different courts. MPAA is not too happy about it.

-Graham

[Unicorn2]

I am personally sorry, but I backup all my DvD's since the MPAA can't even decide "what" i'm entitled to when I buy a disk.

People have argued that they are entitled to ownership of a working copy of the movie (which would therefore allow you to duplicate the disk to backup the original against damage) when you plunk down your $19.99 and the MPAA has disagreed.

People have argued that they are entitled to a guarantee on the workmanship (which would mean the dvd maker would have to replace a defective product) and the mpaa disagreed.


The mpaa's opinion is

"If your disk gets damaged" too bad for you
"If your disk doesn't work in your player" too bad for you
"If you make a backup of your disk so that the original won't get hurt" your a criminal
"If you want to convert your DvD into a DivX or an .ISO file that is 'mountable' with something like Daemons tools (or use a program to decrypt it like DeCSS so you can watch it on a Linux machine, [which was the original intent of the software])" you are a criminal.


SO, what precisely am I paying for?
Do I have a guaranteed functional tangible item, or do I have a viewing license? Neither, seems to be the MPAA's stance.

I personally have read both the AHRA and the DMCA, and according to MY interpretation, I am allowed "Fair-Use" which includes ARCHIVING my media, and or transferring it to another usable medium, but not having MORE THAN 2 formats of it (i.e I can't pick up my copy of dogma out of my dvd shelf, rip it, burn a DvD of it, and have a DivX on my hdd, and store an ASF of it on the webserver.. THAT is a violation.. But if I want to do a DvD->Dogma.iso file, that's ok. = THATS what the AHRA and DMCA actually allow me to do.
However.
The method employed by most people (DeCSS) is 'questionable' as it removes the encryption (i.e. modifies the code)
But there are ways to transcribe the movie data without using DeCSS. Additionally, several programs that HAVE DeCSS in them have been found LEGAL to use (as they put a disclaimer in the front of the film..).. Others have been found to be illegal

[HRGraham]

Originally posted by Unicorn2
I am personally sorry, but I backup all my DvD's since the MPAA can't even decide "what" i'm entitled to when I buy a disk.

People have argued that they are entitled to ownership of a working copy of the movie (which would therefore allow you to duplicate the disk to backup the original against damage) when you plunk down your $19.99 and the MPAA has disagreed.

People have argued that they are entitled to a guarantee on the workmanship (which would mean the dvd maker would have to replace a defective product) and the mpaa disagreed.


The mpaa's opinion is

"If your disk gets damaged" too bad for you
"If your disk doesn't work in your player" too bad for you
"If you make a backup of your disk so that the original won't get hurt" your a criminal
"If you want to convert your DvD into a DivX or an .ISO file that is 'mountable' with something like Daemons tools (or use a program to decrypt it like DeCSS so you can watch it on a Linux machine, [which was the original intent of the software])" you are a criminal.


SO, what precisely am I paying for?
Do I have a guaranteed functional tangible item, or do I have a viewing license? Neither, seems to be the MPAA's stance.

I personally have read both the AHRA and the DMCA, and according to MY interpretation, I am allowed "Fair-Use" which includes ARCHIVING my media, and or transferring it to another usable medium, but not having MORE THAN 2 formats of it (i.e I can't pick up my copy of dogma out of my dvd shelf, rip it, burn a DvD of it, and have a DivX on my hdd, and store an ASF of it on the webserver.. THAT is a violation.. But if I want to do a DvD->Dogma.iso file, that's ok. = THATS what the AHRA and DMCA actually allow me to do.
However.
The method employed by most people (DeCSS) is 'questionable' as it removes the encryption (i.e. modifies the code)
But there are ways to transcribe the movie data without using DeCSS. Additionally, several programs that HAVE DeCSS in them have been found LEGAL to use (as they put a disclaimer in the front of the film..).. Others have been found to be illegal

I'm not saying what they are doing is right. I hate the MPAA/RIAA with a passion.

-Graham

[fac3less]

gasp! Graham! how could you! :)

I personally like to make backups of my games on my hard disk now that I've found out about the awesome little app Daemon Tools.

Take for example the starcraft CD I had purchased.. or my brother's halo one.. that his friend cleaned with a toothbrush...

Yeah.. well they're both no longer working.. starcraft was just plain 'old' to begin with.. but I have a copy.. (quick, come sue me!)

I feel once I've purchased the game - I have a right to have that game forever. Whether the CD no longer works or not. I'll keep them in my posession as long as I can though. Whenever I lose the original CD (whether working or not) I feel that I shouldn't have the right to have the game anymore.

(whether I give it to a friend or lose it..)I should lose the right

Anyways, just my 2 cents.

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by fac3less
gasp! Graham! how could you! :)

I personally like to make backups of my games on my hard disk now that I've found out about the awesome little app Daemon Tools.

Take for example the starcraft CD I had purchased.. or my brother's halo one.. that his friend cleaned with a toothbrush...

Yeah.. well they're both no longer working.. starcraft was just plain 'old' to begin with.. but I have a copy.. (quick, come sue me!)

I feel once I've purchased the game - I have a right to have that game forever. Whether the CD no longer works or not. I'll keep them in my posession as long as I can though. Whenever I lose the original CD (whether working or not) I feel that I shouldn't have the right to have the game anymore.

(whether I give it to a friend or lose it..)I should lose the right

Anyways, just my 2 cents.


Well.. where they get you is the fact that (sorry.. but you busted yourself) Starcraft, for example, has "Safedisc" protection and you'll most likely need a "no-cd" crack for it, even if you've made an .iso of your game.

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by HRGraham
Actually, it is worse. There is no encryption or copy protection built into an audio cd(atleast most of them).
-Graham
And the encryption on an audio cd is disabled by holding down your shift key when you pop the disk in..so..

[sznapsDOTcom]

I agree fully, We should be able to have 1 back up copy. I would understand about selling but 1 back up...Thats bull

[Winston]

One day, many many years from now, they'll figure things out! Of course by then they'll have other new types of media we'll be trying to rip instead!

[Fuzzylogic]

Don't try to understand RIAA or the MPAA they defy all forms of rational logic.

They are like a plague of darkness and unreason which sweeps over the face of humanity.

I truely believe that someday they will be brought up on charges of crimes against humanity.

[Unicorn2]

I got official word from sony that my beta BD drive is on it's way (and they sent me 50 disks too.. ) man.. that's a terabyte..
[I'm a beta tester... ] and these things aren't supposed to be out for well over a year from now!



It's still not gonna play in my dvd player though :-(

[johca]

I got official word from sony that my beta BD drive is on it's way (and they sent me 50 disks too.. ) man.. that's a terabyte.. Great--but what is the burner you're beta testing. A dual layer consumer DVD burner? Good for ya, I'll have wait the year.

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by johca
Great--but what is the burner you're beta testing. A dual layer consumer DVD burner? Good for ya, I'll have wait the year.


No.. it's a bd burner.

"Blue Laser Disk" .

20 gigs per disk :-)

[Fuzzylogic]

Ah good 'ol Sony, GOD FORBID they work with anyone else to set standards.

They screwed up the DVD burners, it screwed up the memory wars (Flash, Compact, and Memory Sticks) and Sony released a 1.2 gig "cd" burner a while back...

Yet the whole time the companies sit on their 120 gig "holographic" burners.

They had those at least 5 years ago, and they were fully functional... but have to milk these DVDs for all they are worth, can't release the best yet, no money in that!

[-rAz-]

Im quite happy with my current plextor 8x dvd+r burner

Only 4.7Gbs but still a lot faster than backuping using CDR and at a reasonable price

Alltho looking forward to the blue laser writers and alternatives

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by Fuzzylogic
Ah good 'ol Sony, GOD FORBID they work with anyone else to set standards.

They screwed up the DVD burners, it screwed up the memory wars (Flash, Compact, and Memory Sticks) and Sony released a 1.2 gig "cd" burner a while back...

Yet the whole time the companies sit on their 120 gig "holographic" burners.

They had those at least 5 years ago, and they were fully functional... but have to milk these DVDs for all they are worth, can't release the best yet, no money in that!


No.. Sony isn't 'screwing up someones standards"

Blue-Ray disks are a NEW technology, NOT only from sony (in fact, sony is only a partial player in the technology, pioneer has a lot more input) - It's a round disk, but it's not meant to be in league with DVD. It's for storing HDTV if anything. .. and I have not seen nor heard of functional 120 gig burners...
They also aren't milking dvd's for all they are worth. They are playing to the audience. Movie production houses aren't making movies that are 40 gigabytes, so there is no need for the medium. Besides, do you really want to have to go through an entirely NEW digital video revision right now? The world is just finally adapting to dvd...

and if it isn't obvious.. the reason why I'm psyched is cause *THE DRIVE IS FREE!*.. it's not like I am paying for it, or the disks.

Sony basically sent me a terabyte of offline storage... for free.
(although, it's probably, with my luck, gonna all be bad storage)

[rguill]

And when movie houses begin producing 40 gig movies, there'll be some pretty heavy security because then you're dealing with some SERIOUS picture and sound quality.

[fac3less]

Doesn't mean they'll be quality though.. :b and I doubt there'll be any security at all.

[Tammy]

Originally posted by Unicorn2
Sony basically sent me a terabyte of offline storage... for free.
(although, it's probably, with my luck, gonna all be bad storage)

So blue-ray disks don't play on conventional dvd drives? If not, you better hope nothing happens to that equipment, it will be hard to replace for quite a while and all that free storage will be useless. ;)

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by Tammy
So blue-ray disks don't play on conventional dvd drives? If not, you better hope nothing happens to that equipment, it will be hard to replace for quite a while and all that free storage will be useless. ;)


No.. why would they? That's like saying "CD's don't play on cassette decks? DvD's don't play on VCRs? Pentium 4's don't fit on my 386 motherboard?

I am sure a BD player will be able to read a dvd.. but most hardware isn't "forward" compatible, only backward compatible.

And believe me.. I'm not gonna put anything important on these disks.. :-)

maybe second backups (i.e. third copy) of my mp3 collection, or whatever...

BTW.. the drive is finally in the us of a.

[Fuzzylogic]

As for not hearing about 120 gig CD burners, check Maximum PC from about 4 or 5 years ago, they did an article about it.

I think Cnet may have also had something at the time. Anyway point being, it worked, it was great, they were ready for market in 1 to 2 years, a company bought up the patent and *GONE*.

[-rAz-]

I have that plextor u are talking about and its ace

Very happy with it

only dont have DVD media that supports 8x :( heh

[Winston]

I'll probably end up buying that Plextor 8x as I don't see anything better thats affordable for me right now. OF course who knows what can happen in the next couple weeks when I do actually get it!!

[Winston]

In case anyone cared (hehe, yeah right), I went ahead and bought the Plextor 708a, cost $197.... Looks like a really good value, can't wait to get it the end of the week.

[Tammy]

Good luck with it, since you have the bucks I think you made a good choice. Let us know if you have any problems with certain media. :)

[johnb]

If not, you better hope nothing happens to that equipment, it will be hard to replace for quite a while and all that free storage will be useless.

Regardless, the cool/geek factor on this is pretty high.

[Viper007Bond]

Originally posted by johnb
Regardless, the cool/geek factor on this is pretty high.
And that's priceless. :D

[vanselus]

Originally posted by Fuzzylogic
Don't try to understand RIAA or the MPAA they defy all forms of rational logic.

No, there's quite a simple logic at work. Like most industries, their business is in the toilet. Unlike most industries who have nothing to blame but dot-com crisis, 9/11, and war - RIAA and MPAA decide that their business is not falling due to economic reasons like the rest of the country. No way, they have a much EASIER target to blame, a target that makes the shareholders much happer. "Criminals". You know, like Unicorn here.

They're not saying you can't have a backup copy, they're saying PLEASE buy another copy for backup so we can show our shareholders that we're doing all we can to build profits back up without cutting our outrageous hog-like salaries!!

You really can't blame them for thinking that way, not many people would lose their jobs on purpose, especially if you have a $12 million dollar home to pay for. I do think they will eventually have to accept that the underhanded tactics of yesterday will no longer work.

So.... they'll find other ways to work the system, and life will be back to normal.

[Viper007Bond]

If they dropped CD prices to like $9.95 or something, the increase in sales would more than make up for the loss of profit per CD.

[Winston]

Of course with all these sites now that sell songs for about $1.00 each, they have to be making more money now then ever. Because now we have all those people buying CD's, as well as the ones who now pay to download songs and/or albums, so it is a win/win for them.

Maybe if they could find a way to add stuff to CD's to make them more attractive for people to buy. Like even beside the quality difference, I would rather have a DVD because of the other features contained on the DVD. If they could add stuff to CD's like music videos, maybe other stuff, that can be used on a computer it would make it more attractive to people. I know some Cd's used them, but not really all that much.

[rguill]

Originally posted by Winston

Maybe if they could find a way to add stuff to CD's to make them more attractive for people to buy. Like even beside the quality difference, I would rather have a DVD because of the other features contained on the DVD. If they could add stuff to CD's like music videos, maybe other stuff, that can be used on a computer it would make it more attractive to people. I know some Cd's used them, but not really all that much.

I'm afraid if that became the norm they would have more justification for jacking prices. All I want is reasonably-priced music. I use to buy music all the time but with prices the way they are now, I just do without and listen to what I already have (which is quite considerable - being a college radio DJ does that to a person).

[vanselus]

I agree - the problem isn't with sales alone, otherwise they'd drop the price to increase sales. But that would cut into profit margin, which is what they're actually looking for. Adding features would further cut into their margins and have the same effect.

[johnb]

They could also put more effort into finding artists that aren't complete crap. That might help. :)

I've been recommending satellite radio to people as an alternative to buying CDs. I haven't bought one since I got XM, it probably saves me $50 a month.

[Tammy]

Satellite radio rocks! A friend of mine has it and it is way cool. If I drove more I would definitely get it. If I ever get a job as a long-distance trucker, I'm there! Lol

[Winston]

I was going to buy an XM, and I went out and bought a new XM Radio system for my car. Of course then you look into it and you have to buy their stupid receiver for $150 and their antenna for another $50 or something, and then your out another 200 bucks. I still may purchase it in the future though. Has anyone tried the other one, Sirius? Which is better, XM or Sirius? It seems XM is more mainstream, but which looks like the better deal?

[rguill]

Originally posted by johnb
They could also put more effort into finding artists that aren't complete crap. That might help. :)


That's what happens when the demographic with the most disposable income are the teenagers and, anymore, what they're buying is crap. Not to say that all teenagers like crap but they buy what's new and blasted all over the radio.

Blame MTV, Top 40 radio, whoever. In the end, it's the $$$ to blame. There's very little money in promoting artists that aren't complete crap. It's easier to manufacture a 'band' than to go out and find decent artists.

I could rant for quite a while on this topic so I'd better stop and get back to work.

[rguill]

Something just occurred to me:

Isn't this thread about "DVD Burners"?

We got a little off topic wouldn't you say?

[vanselus]

Originally posted by rguill
Something just occurred to me:

Isn't this thread about "DVD Burners"?

We got a little off topic wouldn't you say?

No way. DVD burners brought up Blueray which brought up copy protection which brought up RIAA which transmogrified into the price of CD's.

If you wait long enough, every thread degenerates to an arguement about capital punishment.

[fac3less]

hm.. see.. ..

I think we should use cd's as one of the death penalties..

we could fire them out of...

just kidding.. hey van - who does your guys' hats for bite?

kickass catalogue, nice colors, weird 'too normal' font headers though. fix that in 05 :)

[vanselus]

Thanks, glad you dig it. The boring fonts is mostly due to our target market - active 40-60 yr olds.

We do our own hats...

[fac3less]

erm, you sew them yourself or have the machines for em?

hey van.. want to make some money? :)
lol

[vanselus]

I sent you an email back re: hats. We make them in chinese factories, like the shoes.

And no, we don't use kids. These are reputable factories, and we visit 8 times a year.

[rguill]

Hmm, hats.

This is a turn in the thread I didn't expect!

[Unicorn2]

Originally posted by Fuzzylogic
As for not hearing about 120 gig CD burners, check Maximum PC from about 4 or 5 years ago, they did an article about it.

I think Cnet may have also had something at the time. Anyway point being, it worked, it was great, they were ready for market in 1 to 2 years, a company bought up the patent and *GONE*.


I believe I said *functional* 120 gb burners Yes, I've heard about the drives in theory, as well as quarter sized disks that hold 40 gigs, etc.. but, I don't know where any actually EXIST.

Lastly, you may be referring to M.O. drives (magneto-optical) which has been, pretty much devalued as a viable option.

"All the sensitivity to scratches of an optical disk and all the intolerance to EMI of magnetic disks.. IN ONE UNIT!"

[Fuzzylogic]

Originally posted by Unicorn2
I believe I said *functional* 120 gb burners Yes, I've heard about the drives in theory, as well as quarter sized disks that hold 40 gigs, etc.. but, I don't know where any actually EXIST.

Lastly, you may be referring to M.O. drives (magneto-optical) which has been, pretty much devalued as a viable option.

"All the sensitivity to scratches of an optical disk and all the intolerance to EMI of magnetic disks.. IN ONE UNIT!"

Where did all that come from?

As I said, the drives were ready for market, they just needed to start gearing up production.

However, someone bought up their company and buried the patents on it. That's how the world works, check out the oil companies for example they do that all the time.